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Hammer Mapping — Page 1 [2] 3
SuperJer
Websiteman

2005 Mar 21 • 6670
The bots probably don't know how to +use the doors.

Make the doors activate without having to +use them.
 
 
 
2009 Jan 14 at 19:05 UTC — Ed. 2009 Jan 14 at 19:05 UTC
Farmboy102

2008 Aug 1 • 195
Ok the doors work but now something is completely wrong! I've made two huge maps but now after compiling when I press a key the game starts and the map loading progress bar gets to about 6 blocks then my game freezes, now I've tried the same maps in cstrike and czero and it freezes both of the games, then I made a simple map a hollowed box with 1 t+ct spawn and 1 light just to check if the problem is somewhere in my big maps but the test map also freezes the game.

Then I played some of my previous maps ant they worked fine the same with the original cs and cz maps, it's just recently that the problem started ( 3 days ago ) can anyone help?
Farmboy 102 LIVE WITH IT OR GET FRAGGED BY IT.
 
 
 
2009 Jan 24 at 11:24 UTC
Killer-Duck
Homicidal Anatidae

2008 Mar 5 • 1169
633 ₧
Post compile log.
QUACK! QUACK!
 
 
 
2009 Jan 24 at 13:21 UTC
Farmboy102

2008 Aug 1 • 195
hlcsg v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.7 (Dec 9 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)
----- BEGIN hlcsg -----
Command line: hlcsg -nowadtextures cs_killerstrip
Entering cs_killerstrip.map

Current hlcsg Settings
Name | Setting | Default
---------------------|-----------|-------------------------
threads [ 1 ] [ Varies ]
verbose [ off ] [ off ]
log [ on ] [ on ]
developer [ 0 ] [ 0 ]
chart [ off ] [ off ]
estimate [ off ] [ off ]
max texture memory [ 4194304 ] [ 4194304 ]
priority [ Normal ] [ Normal ]

noclip [ off ] [ off ]
null texture stripping[ on ] [ on ]
clipnode economy mode [ on ] [ on ]
onlyents [ off ] [ off ]
wadtextures [ off ] [ on ]
skyclip [ on ] [ on ]
hullfile [ None ] [ None ]
min surface area [ 0.500 ] [ 0.500 ]
brush union threshold [ 0.000 ] [ 0.000 ]

Using mapfile wad configuration
Wadinclude list :
[zhlt.wad]

4 brushes (totalling 24 sides) discarded from clipping hulls
CreateBrush:
(0.19 seconds)
SetModelCenters:
(0.00 seconds)
CSGBrush:
(0.97 seconds)

Using Wadfile: \zhlt\buldingsupply.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (199 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\cached.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (2 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\chateau.wad
- Contains 3 used textures, 7.14 percent of map (136 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\cs_747.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (143 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\cs_assault.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (22 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\cs_bdog.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (132 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\cs_cbble.wad
- Contains 1 used texture, 2.38 percent of map (61 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\cs_havana.wad
- Contains 25 used textures, 59.52 percent of map (122 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\cstraining.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (24 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\cstrike.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (123 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\de_airstrip.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (69 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\de_piranesi.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (160 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\de_storm.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (74 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\de_vertigo.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (19 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\decals.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (237 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\farmboy102's_abnormal.wad
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (408812 bytes): 'BACK2'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (408812 bytes): 'BACK3'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (408812 bytes): 'BACK5'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (213312 bytes): 'ORDINA'
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (60 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\farmboy102's_crazy_first .wad
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (348972 bytes): 'EVENINGBOX_BK'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (348972 bytes): 'EVENINGBOX_BT'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (348972 bytes): 'EVENINGBOX_FR'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (348972 bytes): 'EVENINGBOX_LF'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (348972 bytes): 'EVENINGBOX_RT'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (348972 bytes): 'EVENINGBOX_TP'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (348972 bytes): 'NIGHTBOX_BK'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (348972 bytes): 'NIGHTBOX_BT'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (348972 bytes): 'NIGHTBOX_FR'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (348972 bytes): 'NIGHTBOX_LF'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (348972 bytes): 'NIGHTBOX_RT'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (348972 bytes): 'SKYBOX_DAY_BK'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (348972 bytes): 'SKYBOX_DAY_BT'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (348972 bytes): 'SKYBOX_DAY_FR'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (348972 bytes): 'SKYBOX_DAY_LF'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (348972 bytes): 'SKYBOX_DAY_RT'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (348972 bytes): 'SKYBOX_DAY_TP'
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (37 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\farmboy102's_custom1.wad
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (348972 bytes): 'DOTS'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (246292 bytes): 'FARMBOY102SIGNP'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (298312 bytes): 'COLOURFUL'
- Contains 2 used textures, 4.76 percent of map (47 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\farmboy102's_realistic.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (14 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\jos.wad
- Contains 1 used texture, 2.38 percent of map (24 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\lostcity.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (48 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\pldecal.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (1 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\prodigy.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (2 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\soviet.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (13 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\torntextures.wad
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (240172 bytes): 'TK_STONEWALLHI'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (306812 bytes): 'TK_CLAYROOF'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (272812 bytes): '{TK_PLANTLG'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (327212 bytes): '{TK_PLANTSM'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (235412 bytes): 'TK_TORNMAP'
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (162 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\tswad.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (29 textures in wad)
Including Wadfile: \zhlt\zhlt.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (3 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \sierra\half-life\valve\halflife.wad
- Contains 6 used textures, 14.29 percent of map (3116 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \sierra\half-life\valve\liquids.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (32 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\sample.wad
- Contains 1 used texture, 2.38 percent of map (276 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\czde_cbble.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (59 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \documents and settings\francois\my documents\my pictures\cstrike\stll busy\counter.wad
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (237452 bytes): 'THEMANSPRAY'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (436012 bytes): 'AWPSCOPEPLAYE'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (417312 bytes): 'SNIPERTHINK'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (257852 bytes): 'FLYINGSNIPER'
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (9 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\czritual_standard.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (121 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\czcs_havana.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (159 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\czcs_italy.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (199 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\czcs_militia.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (133 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\czcs_office.wad
- Contains 1 used texture, 2.38 percent of map (305 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\czde_airstrip.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (95 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\czde_aztec.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (87 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\czde_vostok.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (227 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\czde_chateau.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (138 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\czde_corruption.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (83 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\czde_fastline.wad
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (348972 bytes): 'TL_GRY_CLEAN03'
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (158 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\czde_inferno.wad
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (306812 bytes): 'TK_CLAYROOF'
- Contains 1 used texture, 2.38 percent of map (133 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\czde_piranesi.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (203 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\czde_sienna.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (114 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\czde_stadium_pi.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (195 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\czde_truth.wad
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (348972 bytes): '{BAM_TREES03'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (272812 bytes): '{TK_PLANTLG'
- Contains 1 used texture, 2.38 percent of map (68 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \zhlt\wads\czcs_militia.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (133 textures in wad)

Warning: More than 8 wadfiles are in use. (49)
This may be harmless, and if no strange side effects are occurring, then
it can safely be ignored. However, if your map starts exhibiting strange
or obscure errors, consider this as suspect.


added 1 additional animating textures.
Texture usage is at 2.67 mb (of 4.00 mb MAX)
1.42 seconds elapsed

----- END hlcsg -----



hlbsp v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.7 (Dec 9 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)
----- BEGIN hlbsp -----
Command line: hlbsp cs_killerstrip

Current hlbsp Settings
Name | Setting | Default
-------------------|-----------|-------------------------
threads [ 1 ] [ Varies ]
verbose [ off ] [ off ]
log [ on ] [ on ]
developer [ 0 ] [ 0 ]
chart [ off ] [ off ]
estimate [ off ] [ off ]
max texture memory [ 4194304 ] [ 4194304 ]
priority [ Normal ] [ Normal ]

noclip [ off ] [ off ]
nofill [ off ] [ off ]
null tex. stripping [ on ] [ on ]
notjunc [ off ] [ off ]
subdivide size [ 240 ] [ 240 ] (Min 64) (Max 512)
max node size [ 1024 ] [ 1024 ] (Min 64) (Max 4096)


BSP generation successful, writing portal file 'cs_killerstrip.prt'
1.25 seconds elapsed

----- END hlbsp -----



hlvis v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.7 (Dec 9 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)
----- BEGIN hlvis -----
Command line: hlvis cs_killerstrip
449 portalleafs
1293 numportals

-= Current hlvis Settings =-
Name | Setting | Default
-------------------|-----------|-------------------------
threads [ 1 ] [ Varies ]
verbose [ off ] [ off ]
log [ on ] [ on ]
developer [ 0 ] [ 0 ]
chart [ off ] [ off ]
estimate [ off ] [ off ]
max texture memory [ 4194304 ] [ 4194304 ]
max vis distance [ 0 ] [ 0 ]
priority [ Normal ] [ Normal ]

fast vis [ off ] [ off ]
full vis [ off ] [ off ]


BasePortalVis:
(0.41 seconds)
LeafThread:
(32.11 seconds)
average leafs visible: 171
g_visdatasize:23479 compressed from 25593
32.69 seconds elapsed

----- END hlvis -----



hlrad v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.7 (Dec 9 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)
----- BEGIN hlrad -----
Command line: hlrad cs_killerstrip

-= Current hlrad Settings =-
Name | Setting | Default
--------------------|---------------------|-------------------------
threads [ 1 ] [ Varies ]
verbose [ off ] [ off ]
log [ on ] [ on ]
developer [ 0 ] [ 0 ]
chart [ off ] [ off ]
estimate [ off ] [ off ]
max texture memory [ 4194304 ] [ 4194304 ]
priority [ Normal ] [ Normal ]

vismatrix algorithm [ Original ] [ Original ]
oversampling (-extra)[ off ] [ off ]
bounces [ 1 ] [ 1 ]
ambient light [ 0.000 0.000 0.000 ] [ 0.000 0.000 0.000 ]
maximum light [ 255.000 ] [ 256.000 ]
circus mode [ off ] [ off ]

smoothing threshold [ 50.000 ] [ 50.000 ]
direct threshold [ 25.000 ] [ 25.000 ]
direct light scale [ 2.000 ] [ 2.000 ]
coring threshold [ 1.000 ] [ 1.000 ]
patch interpolation [ on ] [ on ]

texscale [ on ] [ on ]
patch subdividing [ on ] [ on ]
chop value [ 64.000 ] [ 64.000 ]
texchop value [ 32.000 ] [ 32.000 ]

global fade [ 1.000 ] [ 1.000 ]
global falloff [ 2 ] [ 2 ]
global light scale [ 1.000 1.000 1.000 ] [ 1.000 1.000 1.000 ]
global gamma [ 0.500 0.500 0.500 ] [ 0.500 0.500 0.500 ]
global light scale [ 1.000 ] [ 1.000 ]
global sky diffusion [ 1.000 ] [ 1.000 ]

opaque entities [ on ] [ on ]
sky lighting fix [ on ] [ on ]
incremental [ off ] [ off ]
dump [ off ] [ off ]

colour jitter [ 0.0 0.0 0.0 ] [ 0.0 0.0 0.0 ]
monochromatic jitter [ 0.0 0.0 0.0 ] [ 0.0 0.0 0.0 ]
softlight hack [ 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 ] [ 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 ]
diffuse hack [ on ] [ on ]
spotlight points [ on ] [ on ]

custom shadows with bounce light
[ off ] [ off ]
rgb transfers [ off ] [ off ]


2238 faces
Create Patches : 15964 base patches
0 opaque faces
188170 square feet [27096552.00 square inches]
19 direct lights

BuildFacelights:
(27.33 seconds)
visibility matrix : 15.2 megs
BuildVisLeafs:
(25.14 seconds)
MakeScales:
(15.92 seconds)
SwapTransfers:
(2.03 seconds)
Transfer Lists : 6660446 : 6.66M transfers
Indices : 3891808 : 3.71M bytes
Data : 26641784 : 25.41M bytes
GatherLight:
(0.84 seconds)
FinalLightFace:
(2.19 seconds)
74.27 seconds elapsed [1m 14s]

----- END hlrad -----



Farmboy 102 LIVE WITH IT OR GET FRAGGED BY IT.
 
 
 
2009 Jan 24 at 13:25 UTC
Down Rodeo
Cap'n Moth of the Firehouse

Find the Hole II Participation Medal
2007 Oct 19 • 5486
57,583 ₧
 
 
 
2009 Jan 24 at 14:14 UTC
Farmboy102

2008 Aug 1 • 195
It hasn't before but will try.
Farmboy 102 LIVE WITH IT OR GET FRAGGED BY IT.
 
 
 
2009 Jan 24 at 14:14 UTC
Down Rodeo
Cap'n Moth of the Firehouse

Find the Hole II Participation Medal
2007 Oct 19 • 5486
57,583 ₧
 
 
 
2009 Jan 24 at 14:16 UTC
Farmboy102

2008 Aug 1 • 195
Yeh Yeh... Ok i tried it and it works but now what is the max number of textures for 1 wad file? Coz I want to take all the original wad files and turn them into one so all I need to know is what is the max.
Farmboy 102 LIVE WITH IT OR GET FRAGGED BY IT.
 
 
 
2009 Jan 24 at 14:20 UTC — Ed. 2009 Jan 24 at 14:47 UTC
Down Rodeo
Cap'n Moth of the Firehouse

Find the Hole II Participation Medal
2007 Oct 19 • 5486
57,583 ₧
Not sure if there is a maximum, sunshine :)

Just put only the relevant textures into a WAD. You don't want any unused ones in there (it will be massive if you do).
 
 
 
2009 Jan 24 at 16:45 UTC
Farmboy102

2008 Aug 1 • 195
There has to be coz I just finished turning all the wads on my pc into 1 and it has more than 8600 textures and is 170MB but now when I want to add it in hammer I get an eror saying VHE as performed an illigal operation and has to shut down, so I'm screwd coz I like using alot of diffrent wads in my maps.
Farmboy 102 LIVE WITH IT OR GET FRAGGED BY IT.
 
 
 
2009 Jan 24 at 17:27 UTC
Down Rodeo
Cap'n Moth of the Firehouse

Find the Hole II Participation Medal
2007 Oct 19 • 5486
57,583 ₧
You don't have to. In fact, don't. 170 megabytes is far too large. You should be aiming for much much less than that (in fact it would be best to use only the textures that appear in the map).
 
 
 
2009 Jan 24 at 18:15 UTC
Farmboy102

2008 Aug 1 • 195
So everytime I start a new map I must change the wad files I use?
(But theres so many how do I choose?)
Farmboy 102 LIVE WITH IT OR GET FRAGGED BY IT.
 
 
 
2009 Jan 24 at 18:39 UTC
Mate de Vita
Kelli

2008 Oct 4 • 2453
159 ₧
Farmboy102 said:
So everytime I start a new map I must change the wad files I use?
(But theres so many how do I choose?)

First create the map using all wads, then make a new wad using wally (see mapping faq) that only includes the textures you used in the map and tell hammer to only use that wad.
...and that's the bottom line because Mate de Vita said so.
 
 
 
2009 Jan 24 at 19:07 UTC
Farmboy102

2008 Aug 1 • 195
Yeh I know how to make wads I just made another one where I combined all the CSCZ wads and it works but the problem now is I can't add alot of other wads then hammer stops working but thats no problem, sno now I think I can put this CSCZ wad online.
Farmboy 102 LIVE WITH IT OR GET FRAGGED BY IT.
 
 
 
2009 Jan 25 at 11:19 UTC
headtanner
2009 Jan 25 • 32
Hi er i'm new here but ur idea of uploading ur cscz got me intrested because im getting tired of geting unused wad out so can u please post the link to the file or if u changed your ming about uploading it please tell me

Many thanks
Learn From Yesterday, Live for Today, Hope for Tomorrow
 
 
 
2009 Jan 27 at 18:12 UTC
SRAW
Rocket Man

2007 Nov 6 • 2525
601 ₧
cs-maps.org has the cz wads
Free Steam Games
 
 
 
2009 Jan 28 at 04:40 UTC
Farmboy102

2008 Aug 1 • 195
Ok the map opens and plays now but when I want CSCZ to generate a nav mesh the game stops again, and I'm only using 6 wad files.

What do I do?
Farmboy 102 LIVE WITH IT OR GET FRAGGED BY IT.
 
 
 
2009 Feb 4 at 09:34 UTC
Down Rodeo
Cap'n Moth of the Firehouse

Find the Hole II Participation Medal
2007 Oct 19 • 5486
57,583 ₧
Hmmm. Not sure. See if anyone else on the interwebs has had that problem; it could be a memory issue or somethin'.
 
 
 
2009 Feb 4 at 11:15 UTC
Killer-Duck
Homicidal Anatidae

2008 Mar 5 • 1169
633 ₧
The first time you start a new map in CSCZ it will automatically generate a .nav-file for the map, this could take some time, just let it do its thing.
QUACK! QUACK!
 
 
 
2009 Feb 4 at 14:46 UTC
Farmboy102

2008 Aug 1 • 195
I think letting my pc run overnight is enought time for the nav file to be generated but it still froze.
Farmboy 102 LIVE WITH IT OR GET FRAGGED BY IT.
 
 
 
2009 Feb 6 at 10:38 UTC
Farmboy102

2008 Aug 1 • 195
Ok new question how do I make fire/flames in a cscz map?
Farmboy 102 LIVE WITH IT OR GET FRAGGED BY IT.
 
 
 
2009 Feb 6 at 10:45 UTC
Mate de Vita
Kelli

2008 Oct 4 • 2453
159 ₧
env_sprite maybe?
or env_glow?
or maybe a cycler with different fire models...
...and that's the bottom line because Mate de Vita said so.
 
 
 
2009 Feb 6 at 11:35 UTC — Ed. 2009 Feb 6 at 11:35 UTC
Farmboy102

2008 Aug 1 • 195
I also want the fire to hurt people so I should add a trigger hurt but I still don't know how to make fire.
Farmboy 102 LIVE WITH IT OR GET FRAGGED BY IT.
 
 
 
2009 Feb 6 at 12:43 UTC
Mate de Vita
Kelli

2008 Oct 4 • 2453
159 ₧
try env_sprite with fire.spr
However that'll be a 2D fire.
...and that's the bottom line because Mate de Vita said so.
 
 
 
2009 Feb 6 at 12:58 UTC
Farmboy102

2008 Aug 1 • 195
next question can you combine a funk_tracktrain with trigger_hurt
coz I want to make a chiken that walks around and when you touch it you lose HP.
Farmboy 102 LIVE WITH IT OR GET FRAGGED BY IT.
 
 
 
2009 Feb 6 at 18:16 UTC
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