the_cloud_system
polly pushy pants

2008 Aug 1 • 3080
-6 ₧

GORULS ARE STUUPEED

Down Rodeo
Cap'n Moth of the Firehouse


2007 Oct 19 • 5486
57,583 ₧

I might have to read this all again what with you guys ripping it. God knows we don't want that.

Man, earlier I was trying to post from the middle of IKEA. Bad idea :(

aaronjer
*****'n Admin


2005 Mar 21 • 4940
1,227 ₧

Before saying anything about this pop star person he doesn't seem to like, the author made himself out to be a fool. By the way, I don't like or dislike this... Ke$ha? I have no idea who she is.

Which brings me to his first stupid thought. The author assumes I know who he is talking about as if everyone does. He apparently assumes all people watch TV or listen to the radio.

He then moved on to his whole thing about how some people use CD players or equivalent and some people use radios. He then went on to say that he uses a radio as if he'd rather be using a more controlled form of music. He then even says he is caused great distress by what he hears over the radio. So... uh... how about instead of spending all this time writing an essay you go GET A FUCKING CD PLAYER?

I was pretty much done with the article by that point.

Down Rodeo
Cap'n Moth of the Firehouse


2007 Oct 19 • 5486
57,583 ₧

Again, I believe he explains why he occasionally listens to the radio - possibly while in the car, or something? Anyway, he is writing a blog about popular music, a specific piece about pop culture... it's a reasonable assumption that you know who he's on about.

aaronjer
*****'n Admin


2005 Mar 21 • 4940
1,227 ₧

He doesn't ever have to listen to the radio ever. I haven't intentionally or unintentionally listened to a radio for as long as I can remember (which, arguably, isn't a very long time). I'm not even annoyed by music that I'm not fond of. I don't even avoid radios on purpose. If he doesn't like it he should... I dunno... stop? If it causes him such excessive distress then continuing to do it makes him a moron.

Down Rodeo
Cap'n Moth of the Firehouse


2007 Oct 19 • 5486
57,583 ₧

Some people feel compulsions to do things. He wanted to write an essay about why "Tik Tok" is not a good song. Why are you taking issue with that? You are, though, aren't you? I'd hate it were I straw-manning.

aaronjer
*****'n Admin


2005 Mar 21 • 4940
1,227 ₧

The very idea annoys me. I do take issue with it. If people can enjoy the song then it is good. Any particular person disliking the song won't change that. I've never heard the song, so I have no opinion on it.

If the target audience likes his article then it is also good, regardless of my animosity towards it.

Down Rodeo
Cap'n Moth of the Firehouse


2007 Oct 19 • 5486
57,583 ₧

I take issue with that again. If people like something, it is good in their opinion. Now obviously for some things one can form an objective opinion - a car that breaks down every 30 seconds is not good, for example. However, in something like music, it's far more difficult. Clearly the people that make music enjoy listening to it, in most cases anyway. So basically this guy has written an opinion piece about why he thinks this song is bad and it is quite clever (of course in my opinion).

This all detracts from the main issue of this truck which is that the OP has some serious genital problems.

Just caught your edit... I see where you're coming from but I don't think you can say objectively that something is good or not based on whether people like it.

sprinkles


2009 Sep 6 • 2547
10 ₧

Scratch that. What I had to say was stupid.

Outcast
My points value is a hilarious example of numerical humor.

2009 Dec 13 • 566
80,085 ₧

What does music have to do with the ejaculation fenomenon?

aaronjer
*****'n Admin


2005 Mar 21 • 4940
1,227 ₧

Well, I guess that's where we disagree. To me, the success of any art form is determined by how well it is received by the target audience. That is the only factor with any meaning at all.

the_cloud_system
polly pushy pants

2008 Aug 1 • 3080
-6 ₧

i thought i could google it and it would come up but atlas, no...


(i remember there was kidnagardner art being stolen by teachers and passed as "art", it was all over the news n shit)

EDIT: with that sead i mean, if you throw shit to hungerey dogs they will eat it, no mater what, they will scrutinize it. but label it off as "new pop" sell it off and blow it up as "rebel music"


its a sad generation we live in...

Mate de Vita
Kelli

2008 Oct 4 • 2453
159 ₧

Well, to be fair, the essay is rather interesting and well written. But, why on earth did the author even think it was necessary?

I mean, when you say that a song like this has terrible lyrics that make no sense, I'll say "Why, thank you, Cpt. Obvious. Here, have this rock," and then you'll be all offended and I'll be happy because I'll have managed to offend yet another person on the internet.
But when you take around 1000-2000 words just to say that... That's like writing a trilogy about how it's a bad idea to run with scissors.

As for the song itself, the first time I heard it, I loved it.
Yes, that's right, I loved it. While I often think when listening to certain songs (including some that go on to become amazing hits *cough* *cough* Justin Bieber *cough*) Oh God, who made this song and why did he/she think it was a good idea to do so? But Tik Tok wasn't one of them, I liked how it sounded, and I knew that a lot of people would as well.
But even hearing it for the first time, it was obvious to me it wasn't a song I'd want to hear more than once, at least not without first consuming a half dozen pints of beer.

But anyway, my loving the song had nothing to do with the fact that I knew there would be people around the world who would hate the song (including me). And I don't think the "fans" felt any different. The so-called fans loved the song simply because it sounded good to them, I don't see why there would have to be some higher phylosophy involved.

And I can't believe one of the longest posts I've written in the last few months on this forum was about an essay on Tik Tok.

aaronjer
*****'n Admin


2005 Mar 21 • 4940
1,227 ₧

I don't actually think about who would or wouldn't like a song when I listen to it. That seems totally alien to me. If I'm playing a game I'll think about who might like it so I can play it with them. Listening to music isn't something that requires more than one person.




I go back to what I just said about how well music is received by the target audience.

Analyzing music any further about originality, repetitiveness or how it holds up with music theory falls under the field of being a pretentious douche.

Down Rodeo
Cap'n Moth of the Firehouse


2007 Oct 19 • 5486
57,583 ₧

Yes, our central disagreement appears to be that I do not equate success == good. I can think of quite a few successful enterprises that are really not good at all. Enterprises of course standing in for a better word that momentarily I cannot think of. Have fun! Make your own!

I admit I like the article because largely I agree with him and very much dislike Ke$ha. I don't like her music or the industry that spawned her. As this article points out it's a very calculating song. There's a Cracked article somewhere that takes the lyrical interpretation to this whole new level and is slightly funny but not really.

I disagree with the comment about pretentiousness. I find it rather inconsistent that you say that Ke$ha's music is in some sense "good", or perhaps has some redeeming feature because there are a lot of people who like it, then say that trying to qualify value judgements by the methods you outline are "claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit" with the implication that to do so is unjustified. Perhaps many people like to analyse music in the manner you suggest - does that not then justify their doing so because there are many that do it? Horrible sentence, you know what I mean.

Additionally
I was going to say something here, but another tab has just informed me I've passed an exam so I will spend the next while happy dancing.

M d'V: as to why he wrote it, well, it's a blog. Maybe he just wanted to vent (besides, does he not say he wanted to find out exactly why the song annoyed him so?).

Having serious worries that I've linked entirely the wrong article.

sprinkles


2009 Sep 6 • 2547
10 ₧

Were you guys, like, on the high school debate team?

Rockbomb
Dog fucker (but in a good way now)

2009 Nov 13 • 2045

I was on the high school cheerleading team... most of them anyway.

Down Rodeo
Cap'n Moth of the Firehouse


2007 Oct 19 • 5486
57,583 ₧

And the team was on you! YEAAAAHH

No, I just like to have discussions. Possibly just the way I've been brought up... I dunno, "Debate Teams" could have been awesome, but why formalise it? I do like where this has gone though, but I could have done with a bit more in the way of my view being challenged. The best discussions are ones in which you are, uh, "made" to see another point of view. In this one I'm pretty much just getting riled at Aaronjer :p

aaronjer
*****'n Admin


2005 Mar 21 • 4940
1,227 ₧

I didn't specify what I mean when I said success. I wasn't implying anything about how much money it made or anything like that. That sentence was just supposed to be taken as "Target audience enjoyment = How good it is."

There is a reason why you can't qualify how good a song is by how it is written or what it sounds like. It has too little to do with people actually enjoying it. Someone like you or me has the ability to analyze a song and determine in a relatively 'expert' way if it is original or well-written. Most people do not have this ability in spades. Most people determine to themselves whether or not a song is 'good' simply by finding out if it is on the radio and if it is by an established artist. That is more important to people than any actual property of the song. I'd LIKE to say that is unimaginably stupid, but I won't pretend that wouldn't just be my bias in musical taste talking. I can't say those people are judging music the wrong way because I certainly can't determine that they are enjoying themselves any less than I am.

The funny thing is that I do the same thing as the people who judge music by something other than it's artistic qualities. I'd say about 55% of my opinion of any given song is based on what the song is used in. This is why I primarily listen to music that is from games/movies/TV shows. I can easily recognize that a lot of music that I listen to I wouldn't enjoy if it wasn't from something I like. I COULD still analyze the music I listen to and determine if it is well-written in a music theory sense... but what's the point? It wouldn't change whether or not I enjoy it.

I'm sure that some people base their opinion of a song solely on it's artistic qualities. I agree that it would make more SENSE if everyone did, but in the end it's just snobby to declare a song good or bad in general based on such an underused set of criteria.

So this all means that determining how good a song is has to take in all sorts of factors. The factors are wildly different depending on the target audience. For someone like Ke$ha to make a good song she simply has to make sure it isn't too different from current pop music to be accepted. That along with the song having her name attached to it and it playing on the radio will make her target audience like it, and thereby mean the song was good. The factors for someone making music that you or I would enjoy are totally different. The problem I have with this author is that he is applying the factors of his kind of music onto another. Pop music doesn't follow the same rules as whatever music you listen to, author guy! Stop trying to stuff it into your mold, author guy! It makes you look like an elitist asshole, author guy! Figure out that the only thing that matters is if people ENJOY a piece of music, author guy!

the_cloud_system
polly pushy pants

2008 Aug 1 • 3080
-6 ₧

edit: nostalgia....

aaronjer
*****'n Admin


2005 Mar 21 • 4940
1,227 ₧

Uhh... it's not nostalgia coming from me. Most of the music I listen to is from things I've played/watched in the last month or two.

Down Rodeo
Cap'n Moth of the Firehouse


2007 Oct 19 • 5486
57,583 ₧

Yeah, OK, but

sprinkles


2009 Sep 6 • 2547
10 ₧