Spiral - Buffy Episode Review by MikeJer

To be completely honest, "Spiral" is a pretty big disappointment. I was expecting another layered and complex episode with some impressive action sequences. What I got instead was an episode with suspect plot logic and utterly ridiculous set pieces that border on goofy, which is not cool. With all that said, there's still much plot progression, some great subtle character moments, and some chilling exposition that lay the stakes on the line. This entire episode is basically one big action scene after another with a big chunk of exposition in the middle of it. That'd be okay if it was done with some more sensibility.

The opening scene, though, has plenty sensibility and is super cool to boot. Glory blasting through the wall and running incredibly fast through some doors at UC Sunnydale is a sweet visual effect. After Buffy and Dawn barely escape Glory thanks to Willow's useful forcefield spell and a truck, it quickly becomes obvious that the Scoobies can't stop her forever. So what's Buffy's idea to save them? Apparently to cram everyone in a winnebago that can't go past 35 mph and is about to fall apart. Simply packing them all up in two smaller but faster cars would have done the trick and avoided all the problems that follow. This idea by the writers was mistakenly taken for laughs when it should have been taken seriously, like Buffy is. I can overlook small plot contrivances but this is a huge one.

While I'm dwelling on the negative I might as well get it all out of my system. How in the world did the Knights manage to get their whole little stupid army over to Sunnydale... with horses... looking like that? These guys look like they came out of a Xena episode. What is going on here? Also, how'd the Knights find the winnebago let alone catch up with it? Ugh... I'm sorry but there's just too much stupidity in plotting for me to excuse any of it. I expect more from Buffy, a lot more. But wait! It doesn't end! We get to see their general guy run into Buffy's makeshift stronghold with only one guard! At this point I don't even think I need to mention how utterly one-dimensional this group is. When Glory slaughters all of them at the end of the episode and that one guy gasps out, all melodramatic-like, "the beast..." all I can do is cheer. Thank you Glory for killing those, as Spike elogantly puts it, "role-playing rejects." It's such a shame the writers couldn't intelligently work the Knights into the plot and it represents one of the big missed opportunities this season.

Okay, take a breath. With all that disappointment off my chest, I can actually start talking about some of the stuff I loved. Yes, there is stuff I loved. First is a fascinating parallel between Dawn and Ben that's developing. Both of them have manufactured existences and are victims of circumstances having to make the best of their respective situations. We see Ben constantly saying that this is his life and that he's going to do whatever it takes to keep it. At this point he's not quite willing to kill Dawn to save himself, but he's not ruling it out. Dawn on the other hand doesn't want to hurt anyone and is kind of helpless to do much of anything about her situation.

Like Spike told Dawn before and Ben told himself before, it doesn't matter much how you got here, it's what you do now that matters. Both Dawn and Ben started out in the same boat, but in these final episodes we see Dawn pulling more towards being willing to sacrifice herself rather than see others hurt and Ben going the exact opposite way. The beginning of this split is played excellently for tension while Ben is helping an injured Giles.

Another well-done aspect of this episode is everything surrounding Buffy's attitude. We see a cold, depressed, and scared Buffy who just gets bombarded by one disaster after another without being given time to process what's happening and make good decisions. When they first load up in the winnebago and everyone objects to Spike being there, Buffy just yells out, "Look this isn't a discussion! He stays! Get over it!" She's right, they need him helping them--they need anyone willing to help them. This makes Buffy go even further into isolation, locking herself in the back room. Later on Dawn comes in and does something that's been way overdue: thanking Buffy for all the amazing stuff done for her. Although Buffy appreciates the sentiment, it's not nearly enough to break her away from the reality of the situation. Tearing up a bit she says, "It just keeps coming. Glory. Riley. Tara. Mom." Things have really been piling up on Buffy this season, and she's about to snap.

Another brief moment of comfort for Buffy is when an injured Giles also essentially thanks her for everything she's done. He tells her, "What I've always admired... Being able to place your heart above all else. I'm so proud of you. You've come so far. You're everything a Watcher... everything I could have hoped for." I'm glad Buffy heard this directly from Giles and wasn't left implied any longer. They've been through so much together, it feels right for it to finally be verbalized.

As things continue to get more dire towards the end of the episode, Buffy begins taking this attitude of 'everyone's going to make it' which, while admirable, is hardly practical and something in future seasons she'll realize. This extends to Buffy genuinely promising not to let anything happen to Dawn. Nearly immediately after this promise Ben, who was called to help the injured Giles, transforms into Glory right in front of everyone and starts crazily tearing the place up going after Dawn. Buffy can't stop her, Glory snags Dawn, kills all the Knights outside Willow's cool protective bubble, and vanishes thereby shattering Buffy's promise to Dawn. Understandably, this is when Buffy completely shuts down and goes into a catatonic shock. Pieces have been coming together all season to build to this moment and here it finally happens. More good character continuity.

A few other bits that I found on the positive side of things include Xander helping Spike light his cigarette ("You know those things will kill you"), finally showing some acceptance and gratitude for Spike's help which has been long overdue though understandably absent until now. I also really enjoyed getting a ton of background on what exactly the Key is and what the stakes are if Glory succeeds. It's amusing that Glory could care less about harming the world, it just so happens that's a side effect of getting her back home. If the Key is activated it will cause "The walls separating realities will crumble, dimensions will bleed into each other. Order will be overthrown and the universe will tumble into chaos. All dark. Forever." Pretty heavy stuff, though it's great that at least Dawn finally knows why everyone's out to kill her.

During this exposition from the Knight General, Gregor, we discover they seem to have blind devotion in the name of God. Whether or not this is the Christian God or some other is unknown, but no sane God would ever will an innocent to be murdered, which is the case Buffy makes. The Knights reek of religious hijacking which actually has some interesting parallels to how terrorists are molesting the Muslim religion. Whether or not this was intended by the writers I am unsure of. All I know is that the writing team kind of left the exploration of this topic in the air, as it is not discussed again nor does Gregor even have a response to Buffy's initial plea.

In the end my feelings are a big mixed bag on this episode. There's some stuff to genuinely like while there's almost as much to be repulsed by, mostly involving the entirely dumb and one-dimensional Knights. The action scenes prove to be pretty enjoyable when I could look past all plausibility issues, and I feel the character moments outweigh the negatives just enough to keep this one out of the C-range, but barely. Those negatives do drag the episode down a fair amount though. It's just a shame this late in the stretch the writers couldn't nail down a consistently explosive multi-part finale.

1.	Dingdongalistic Jan 19 2007
	I could tell I was going to clash pretty badly with your review, so I've got a lot of typing to do ;). - QUOTE - So what's Buffy's idea to save them? Apparently to cram everyone in a winnebago that can't go past 35 mph and is about to fall apart. Simply packing them all up in two smaller but faster cars would have done the trick and avoided all the problems that follow. This idea by the writers was mistakenly taken for laughs when it should have been taken seriously, like Buffy is. I can overlook small plot contrivances but this is a huge one. But the thing is, I don't think it was a plot contrivance at all, but a character failing on Buffy's part. We've been seeing all season how unprepared and panicked she is for when Glory finds out, and that comes directly to a head here. By this stage she's more or less completely in charge of the group, so they go by her instructions. If she had been calmer, Buffy would have put Giles in charge of the practicalities such as accommadation and whatnot, but she isn't, and Buffy panics, coming up with something, which although ridiculous, is understandably from the way she's looking at it the most practical solution. You see, Buffy doesn't exactly have much experience when it comes to directing an organised journey, and she really should have left the organisation part up to someone like Giles, but when all's said and done, she panics, which is the point of that part of the episode. What I also disagree with is that the episode didn't play this up hugely for laughs. You know, after being told so many times that Buffy's greatest strength as a show is mixing comedy with tradgedy, I find it amusingly ironic that one of the ultimate examples (or so I thought) I like about this is one a lot of people dislike. The scene where Buffy arrives with the Winnebago is genuinely comic, but there's a serious point to it, which is heightened by the following scenes. We're gradually shown how inexperienced and terrified Buffy is, and that's one of the darkest parts of Spiral, how everything spirals out of control for her and the gang, at least partly due to her panicking, however unintentional that may have been. - QUOTE - While I'm dwelling on the negative I might as well get it all out of my system. How in the world did the Knights manage to get their whole little stupid army over to Sunnydale... with horses... looking like that? These guys look like they came out of a Xena episode. What is going on here? Also, how'd the Knights find the winnebago let alone catch up with it? Ugh... I'm sorry but there's just too much stupidity in plotting for me to excuse any of it. I expect more from Buffy, a lot more. But wait! It doesn't end! We get to see their general guy run into Buffy's makeshift stronghold with only one guard! At this point I don't even think I need to mention how utterly one-dimensional this group is. When Glory slaughters all of them at the end of the episode and that one guy gasps out, all melodramatic-like, "the beast..." all I can do is cheer. Thank you Glory for killing those, as Spike elogantly puts it, "role-playing rejects." It's such a shame the writers couldn't intelligently work the Knights into the plot and it represents one of the big missed opportunities this season. I've always disagreed with this, despite the obvious fact that the knights are underused. To be perfectly honest, they were supposed to be "role-playing rejects" from the beginning, and simply a reminder about how serious Dawn's position was. But despite being utterly old-fashioned and stuck to tradition, they're still effecient and rather dangerous because of their fanaticism. In a show that frequently shows the (often amusing) side of what happens when the supernaturally knowledged people move with the times, I find it quite interesting when they show a group which doesn't. It makes for interesting and underniable entertaining viewing. How did the Knights transport their army into Sunnydale? I don't know, and in the end I don't care that much, either. For one, we are shown that they're not afraid of using subterfuge and disguise, for another, we see they only tend to behave in such absurdly traditional and middle-ages fashion when acting drectly in connection to the Key and their chosen target. Apart from this, I challenge you to claim that this is the biggest and worst plausibility issue that Buffy ever had. Buffy's plots have always had slight plausibility issues, and as long as they’re used and executed well, like here, I don’t really mind that much. - QUOTE - It's just a shame this late in the stretch the writers couldn't nail down a consistently explosive multi-part finale. But I'd say that Spiral was explosive, if nothing else. I personally think if there's one thing you can't accuse it of not being, that's explosive. It is, in my opinion, Buffy's best, and most deep, action thriller. The thing is, Spiral has some of the best characterisation in season five. It's brilliantly deep at times, especially in the last quarter, and the comedy is just as good. This takes me back to what I was saying earlier about the mix of comedy and tragedy. In spiral, they don't even feel mixed, they feel one and the same - tragedy is consistently tempered with comedy to the point where I don't even notice. I both laugh at and feel for the characters, and connect with them on a level that I don't except for five other episodes in the season. The Winnebago is both hilariously funny and deeply saddening, and it shows up perfectly Buffy’s balance and range at this time. And the fight scene is the definitive reason I watch Buffy. It’s absurd yet brilliant, showing the seamless mix of fantasy, tradition and modernisation that I love about the show.

2.	Rick Jan 19 2007
	Hmm, I have to agree mostly with Dingdong on this one. Mike, it seems you are especially hard on this episode. While I admit it is flawed, I have always had great affection for this episode and it is in fact one of my favourites (not on the best list for sure though) of the season, if not the series. First of all, I'll say that the Winnebego does not seem dumb at all to me and I'm kinda shocked it was considered so seriously in the review. They are going to the middle of nowhere and will be gone for who knows how long. Something that can store supplies, house them, shelter them, feed them, and get them where they want to go seems not in the least retarded, but in fact necessary. It may be slow, but the assumption is: How the hell would glory know what vehicle they're in anyways? Secondly, while I sympathize with your complaints about the Knight, I think you overemphasize their detrimental effect. As Dingdong said, I think they are contrived for a very sound reason: they are supposed to be one-sided, traditional, and religiously based in order to illustrate the complexity of the situation that they are failing to grasp (see Buffy's attacks on Gregor). They exist to reinforce the theme that the utilitarian "one life for many" is rightly not an option for Buffy, at least at this time. I will, however, cede that their miraculous ability to mobilize and find her so quickly is annoying, although not hugely so (as a side note, does anyone else find it interesting that Buffy kills a human here, for the first and only time I think). Lastly, I will counter that, while not maximizing its potential, Spiral is a great piece of the multi-arc finale that sheds light on how great a human being Buffy is (see Giles' discussion with her), key relationships (Buffy/Spike, Giles/Buffy, Willow/gang, Ben/Dawn), and the season's plots and themes. I would have scored it between 85-90 (critcially 85, with style 90). I will, however, note my major complaint about the episode, which no one has mentioned. Why the fuck would Ben fathom coming to help them if he's serious about not hurting Dawn (which is obvious considering his behaviour prior to this episode, his panic when he realizes Glory is coming, and his behaviour next episode before Glory finally convinces him otherwise.) I don't believe he was suffering from such extreme emotional ambivalence that he would make such a reckless decision.

3.	Rick Jan 19 2007
	Also, a winnepego is the best option if they are to bring Spike a long with them....sunlight! and if that's all that's around, it's not like they have time to be picky.

4.	Rick Jan 19 2007
	I guess you can also tell (from this episode, Shells, and Dead Things) that Deknight is one of my fav Buffverse writers! (after Joss and Minear I think)

5.	Dingdongalistic Jan 19 2007
	- QUOTE - I will, however, note my major complaint about the episode, which no one has mentioned. Why the fuck would Ben fathom coming to help them if he's serious about not hurting Dawn (which is obvious considering his behaviour prior to this episode, his panic when he realizes Glory is coming, and his behaviour next episode before Glory finally convinces him otherwise.) I don't believe he was suffering from such extreme emotional ambivalence that he would make such a reckless decision. But I think that actually was designed to show up Ben's reckless nature - he wants to be in control of the situation himself, as evidenced from the beginning of the episode, and wants to keep his options open. I'm not so convinced he is serious about being concerned for Dawn's safety, as we see in the next episode that his concern for himself does ultimately come above everyone else. He's also still got biases from wanting to help with the short-term problems Buffy has, which includes someone in danger of dying. For this reason, although he does know the dangers to Dawn, he wants to risk it.

6.	Rick Jan 19 2007
	I guess we'll agree to disagree on that one. I think this a poorly contrived plot device for the writers.

7.	mikejer Jan 19 2007
	I'm afraid I just can't allow myself to get past the extreme hokiness of the Knights. Even a Buffy in panic would not make such a poor decision. With Giles' sports car and Xander's established car, they should have taken off at high speeds on the freeway. That would have been my first thought in the face of panic. Instead they get a slow, huge, vehicle and go on a slow, dirt road. Simply the picture of a bunch of guys in chainmail galloping past a motorized vehicle in horses is too stupid for me. I know this is a fantasy show, but usually Buffy successfully avoids being truly hokey. Not here though. The episode has value, as I pointed out, but I don't feel I was hard on it at all. I think my score is very fair. The Knights comprise the majority of this episode I think they just flat out fail as being much of anything interesting. Even if there was some depth there I'd have a hard time looking past their extremely stupid appearance and dialogue. The actors playing the Knights also do an extremely poor job. It's just too bad for me to ignore.

8.	Rick Jan 19 2007
	Fair defence, but we shall remain at odds over this ep. The fun thing about any debate is that no one has to agree, "except in this case when I'm clearly right and you are clearly wrong." JK. cheers

9.	Dingdongalistic Jan 20 2007
	I appreciate your reasons for disliking it, Mike, but I do think that it was completely in character for Buffy to come to that conclusion when panicking, as it was, although illogical, not an unreasonable mistake to make. Let's take a look at the evidence: Firstly, as Rick has said: They are going to the middle of nowhere and will be gone for who knows how long. Something that can store supplies, house them, shelter them, feed them, and get them where they want to go seems not in the least retarded, but in fact necessary. It may be slow, but the assumption is: How the hell would glory know what vehicle they're in anyway? That's exactly the type of reasoning that went through my mind when I first saw the Winnebago. At first, I didn't consider that she'd made a mistake, but that it was essential for certain aspects of the journey. Then I saw how slow and useless it was, but my first thought wasn't "how stupid a mistake that was", it was "how understandable a mistake that is", because that's exactly the type of mistake I'd expect Buffy to make when organising practicalities like how to transport lots of people, food, clothes, weapons, food, and a vampire. I didn't think of it as contrived because Buffy, regardless of her many good attributes, isn't flawless when it comes to the more reality-based practical issues, and that's why Giles tends to organise such things when he can. Hence why his groan when he sees what she's arranged, and his complaints about the Winnebago, seem completely in character, because it isn't the first time he's noticed Buffy's faults in this practical area of life. I also think the fact that Spike would be far more compromised in a car was part of the contribution towards Buffy's decision. He's got a better chance of protecting Dawn in a Winnebago than in a car.

10.	LibMax Jul 26 2007
	Hey, anybody want a new and improved reason for hating the Knights of Byzantium? Check this out. They say they've "given their lives" to making sure that "The Beast" never gets her hands on "The Key." Okay, how long is that exactly? The Key is Dawn, as of a few months ago. Before that, the monks were hiding The Key, which is supposed to be "wicked old." The Knights are very clear - The Key is the link (to The Beast), the link must be severed, such is the will of God. Obviously The Key by itself is no problem to anybody without The Beast, it's only when it became "the link" that it had to be destroyed. So there was no point at all to the Knights of Byzantium, no reason for them to exist as such, until The Beast entered our world. Now The Beast is Glory, who entered our world when she got kicked out of her hell dimension by the other two Hellgods, who joined her with a human baby boy (Ben) to live out the natural span of his life and then die. So Glory entered our world when Ben was born. How old is Ben? Late twenties, perhaps? He's a medical student, not a doctor. So let's say he was born in 1973. Yeah, remember 1973, how everybody rode horses because cars hadn't been invented yet, and how all the cool knights wore chainmail and carried swords? Me neither! There wasn't even such a place as Byzantium in 1973! I'll buy the monks, because it's at least possible that The Key itself has been in our world since the Middle Ages or earlier. But it wasn't "the link" to anything until the 1970s at the earliest. What, did the Knights of Byzantium have a prophecy that The Beast would brass off her posse and get booted to Earth a thousand years or so in advance? And if so, what have they been doing all that time? Sharpening their swords? Apparently the writers got so caught up in Glory and The Key being ancient that they forgot how little time Glory had actually been in this world. And it doesn't matter how old she was by that time, the Knights of Byzantium are human and couldn't have forayed into her Hell dimension. Besides, Glory had no use for The Key until she got the boot and woke up inside baby Ben's body, which is exactly the same moment that The Key became "the link."

11.	mikejer Jul 26 2007
	That logic makes sense to me. I say add it to the list against the Knights! :)

12.	LibMax Jul 26 2007
	Two other things. First, I think Ben answered Buffy's call because he intended to kill Dawn and stop Glory that way. This is based on his earlier conversation with Gronx, the female minion. Ben lost his nerve sometime after he got to the site and decided to do what he could to help instead. This gutlessness is Ben's fatal flaw. Obviously the way for him to stop Glory would have been to kill himself, but that's exactly the outcome he wasn't willing to accept. A great guy, that Ben, right up until the moment when being a great guy might actually cost him something. Second, I think the biggest hole in the Glory/Key arc is that Buffy didn't start playing keep-away with Dawn much sooner. They should have left Sunnydale and started bouncing around the country right after No Place Like Home. But she didn't want to tell Dawn the truth (nobody thought of telling Dawn that the monks had put The Key in her rather than telling her that she was The Key), and then her mother's illness tied Buffy to Sunnydale. And Buffy and Giles didn't know for sure that they could win by simply playing out the clock until much later. Still, after Checkpoint if not earlier, it was clear that running away was the only feasible option. The winnebago of fools was just too little, too late.

13.	LibMax Jul 26 2007
	Oh, I just remembered a great BTVS quote to dump on the Knights of Byzantium some more. Mr. Trick, in Bad Girls: "It's called a Uzi, chump! Woulda saved ya ass right about now!"

14.	BreakAtmo Nov 26 2007
	I disagree regarding the Winnebago - 2 cars would not function as shelter, or storage, and the Winnebago also conceals their identities on the road. And yes, Spike couldn't have come if they used cars. It's true that the Knights couldn't have started their Key-hunting thing until Ben was born, but there's one thing. Did they ever say that destroying the Key was their sole purpose? Maybe they've been doing different things for their centuries of existence, and when Glory was banished to Earth, they shifted all their attention there due to the importance. This is a mere guess, but I thought it should be considered.

15.	buffyholic Nov 28 2007
	I have mixed feelings about this too. I don´t mind the winnebago and I love the fight on the roof. But I just can´t think as plausible the Knights, the whole army in Sunnydale chasing them. Doesn´t work for me. But what I loved the most was how depressed and cynical Buffy is. Everything happens to her and everybody expects her to do everything. of course she´s gonna snap and be all cranky and scared.

16.	Bill Feb 17 2008
	This ep was bad on a lot of levels, and the good can't overcome that. The Knights were laughable, and then the episode has to go out of its way to do things differently to accommodate the Knights. Hey, let's take off into the desert so that we won't be in a crowded area and then we can actually film a scene where the horses chase the Winnebago. That was so contrived, as was the majority of this episode.

17.	Plain Simple Feb 29 2008
	There are a lot of plot issues with this episode, but the largest complaint I have is one that is only briefly mentioned by Rick above: Buffy killed a human (or more?)! This should be a huge thing. I can understand them justifying it to themselves, but at least it should have been addressed. Or should we assume that the knight who got the axe in his chest survived? And what about the Knight's second in rank telling Buffy that ten of his men died? Did Buffy kill all of them, or did Giles ran over them with the Winnebago? The only comment in the show that's slightly related to this is Xander saying that 'this is war'. Was that meant, apart from the whole 'there are rules in war' issue, as a justification for all the killing? There was a time on the show when killing humans was a big deal and I think disregarding it completely here is the major flaw of this episode. Much more serious then any plot contrivances. What bothered me plot wise was Ben showing up there. He knows he can turn into Glory at any moment and he knows Dawn's the Key, so we risk bringing Glory to Dawn? The explanations some give above do make some sense, but for me still doesn't settle the issue. Perhaps his drive to help a dying Giles was greater at the moment? (Just trying to convince myself here that there's a good reason). Re LibMax: you make a good point, although it's probably not too hard to think up an explanation for why the Knights have been around for so long (btw, I think Glory mentions in one of the final episodes that her human body is 25). I don't get one thing you say though: "I'll buy the monks, because it's at least possible that The Key itself has been in our world since the Middle Ages or earlier." There are still monks in the world today, as were there in 1973, so why does the Key need to be around since the Middle Ages to be kept by monks?

18.	jun Mar 10 2008
	I agree that the choice of the winnebago was an in-character response for Buffy. Consider her idea of "everyone is going to make it" and her reaction to having lost so many people already. Doesn't it make sense she'd want everyone all together, where she could see them, no matter how impractical the method of conveyance?

19.	Bill Jul 26 2008
	No, not at all. It was a simple contrivance to make sure that they could get the Knights out their on horses. It is completely illogical and makes no sense whatsoever other than to allow the Knights room to operate on their horses. The story should never have to be stretched like to allow for a prop, rather the prop should work within the story, and in this episode the prop, and by extension, the Knights, failed miserably.

20.	Jaden Jul 27 2008
	okay im gonna do a dictionary rather than a long winded comment: knights of byzanthium: one sided army to destroy key, pure plot contrivance which is actually good as it would be WAY to complex if they were more. however the shouldnt have been SO hyped over destroying the key as it makes them seem extremely incompetent (or buffy unrealisticly powerful) ben: a slightly unstable man from his circumstances who would want to help buffy through his nature despite the chance of glory coming out (plus this could be an excuse to kill dawn as a hidden agenda) winnebego: easy for one to get there hands on, easily shelters the scoobies so as not to add even more stress from being packed in, holds necessities for a long road trip. spiral: an episode which i first saw when i was about 7 (my older sister watched it but i didnt understand a bit of it) which showed the show as mature, action filled and surprisingly intimidating (you couldnt grasp it in a second) which seemed a pretty suitable pinnacle of the series to me. well would you look at that, it IS a long winded comment. oh well!

21.	Sean Sep 18 2008
	How come no one mentions the fact that Tough Love takes place hours before they leave in the Winnebago and Spike is a bruised up mess and in Spiral he's all but healed? Yet Tough Love takes place a couple of days after Intervention? It's a nitpick.

22.	Paula Sep 18 2008
	Sean, I'm not sure if there's a (big) problem there. Vampires heal quick, Spike is a whole lot better in Tough Love already than he was at the end of Intervention, and didn't more than 12 hours pass between the scene where Spike is underground with Buffy and Dawn and when we next see him in the Winnebago? Unless I'm mistaken, Tara stayed overnight in the hospital in between. Sure they might have shown some sign of recent injuries on him still, but I don't think his being pretty much healed as they all leave town is much of a stretch.

23.	Andrew Dec 6 2008
	Just adding my voice as another one who loves this episode (The really odd thing is that this and Triangle are my two favourite episodes in the season; and going from your rating they're your two least favourite). I won't say any more; pretty much all the remarks on one side or another have been made already.